Emperor's Clothes Interviews Radio B292

www.tenc.net
[Emperor's Clothes]

On May 17th, the Yugoslav government closed Studio B, controlled by Vuk
Draskovic's Serbian
Renewal Party in Belgrade. The charge: that Studio B Television "has
been calling for armed terrorist and
criminal actions against the Republic of Serbia and its citizens." Since
the controversial Radio B292 used
space at Studio B, B292 was effectively closed as well.

Some said that the charges were fabricated, that this was a terrible
attack on free speech. Were they
right? Did the station represent an attempt at free journalism, stifled
by heavy-handed bureacrats?

Emperor's Clothes published two articles by geopolitical analyst Paul
Treanor which argued, with
documentation, that Radio B292 was in fact controlled by powerful
Western interests which aimed to
bring Yugoslavia down.

Shortly after Studio B was closed, Emperor's Clothes editor Jared Israel
tracked down B292 staff
members at a temporary office in Belgrade. He interviewed two people,
gordan Paunovic, who ran
B292's web page, and Sanda Savic, the news editor. The interviews were
an attempt to shed light on the
charges raised by Mr.. Treanor. They relate directly to the question: Is
the Serbian opposition in fact
independent of US control? This has direct bearing on the present
Yugoslav elections.

Interview with gordan Paunovicm webmaster for B292.

Conducted by Jared Israel, editor www.tenc.net

Jared: Why did the government shut down Studio B?

Gordan Paunovic: The main accusation was that they called for an armed
response to overthrow the
government

Jared: Is that true?

Paunovic: No, of course not. On the 13th of May you had a rally on a
mountain over there and you had
these people who shouted "Uprising! Uprising!" And they had coverage of
both rallies. So if you think
that's a call for uprising -

[Note: Subsequently I learned from a Montengran student whose family has
been involved in "upriings"
for 200 years, that while the term "uprising" might be taken as radical
chic in English, in Serbia it is
associated with a bloody history of anti-Turkish rebellions, a history
with which every Serbian child is
familiar. It is therefore not a term likely to be used casually.]

Jared: Well the news report I read in the West said that guns were fired
in the air and Vuk Draskovic
said, "Save your bullets, we're going to need them." Doesn't that sound
like a call for civil war and -

Paunovic: These are folklore events without any political weight which
are happening every year. It is the
anniversary of the Chetniks' uprising against the Nazi's in the Second
World War, on this mountain. It's a
completely folklore gathering. They always have guns.

Jared: But his comment? "Save your bullets we'll need them later?"

Paunovic: Well then let them arrest Draskovic.

Jared: Well, they closed his Studio B...Tell me, is radio B292 funded by
George Soros?

Paunovic: Funded or founded?

Jared: Funded. Given money -

Paunovic: I think it happens quite often since 1992 but it's not the
only source of money. But I'm not the
right person to talk about this.

Jared: Do you know anything about -

Paunovic: There is a list of international foundations, not only Soros
who -

Jared: Like what else?

Paunovic: Press Now, from Holland, Royal Swedish Foundation or
something, Royal Netherlands
Foundation.

Jared: Any in the US?

Paunovic: I guess so. I don't know the details. Those things I know by
chance. But Soros Foundation,
yes, definitely, but much, these days in last year or two years much
less than before.

Jared: Any money coming from foundations in the US?

Paunovic: Probably, but I don't know which Foundations. I am pretty much
pissed off in putting this kind
of argumentation, like Soros equals B92. That really comes from people
who are not in a position to see
what we are doing. We will take money from anyone. To make a good
production on many levels, from
radio, to TV and video productions to Internet, Books, music. You need
money.

Jared: I'll read you a statement from Gelbard. You know who Gelbard is?

Paunovic: US Special Envoy to the Balkans.

Jared: Exactly. [Jared's note: actually prior to this interview Gelbard
had been moved to a new position,
Ambassador to Indonesia...] Do you know who Biden is? Sen. Biden? This
an exchange from the July
29th [1999] hearings on supporting the so-called independent forces in
Serbia. The hearings took place
the day after the Senate voted to give 100,000,000 dollars to the
'independent' opposition. This is Sen.
Biden talking:

"SEN. BIDEN: "What can we do about inside Serbia? For example Draskovic
continues to deny access
to Studio B, which is supposedly, as I understand it -- he's not?

"MR. GELBARD: No, he's actually given access to Studio B -- excuse me;
given access of Studio B to
Radio B-92. And my understanding is that Radio B-92, one of the
independent voices, has just reopened
as Radio B-292. We want Draskovic to open up Studio B to the rest of the
opposition, and that's a
message that he'll be getting from us in the next few days."

Jared resumes: That's how they talked about you. Any comment?

Paunovic: Can you read it to me again?

Jared: I'll read it slowly. [Reads again]

Paunovic: Hmmm. I think it's, I mean I'm not getting clear what do you
want to point? What do you want
to ask me? If you want to think B92 is the voice of Gelbard or the
American administration, that has
nothing to do with reality.

Jared: Well let me ask you, does it sound like an extraordinary
situation for the government of a hostile
country to be discussing in detail the use of studio facilities in the
target country. And discussing it in detail
-

Paunovic: Well, to make such a conclusion that would mean that you have
a perfectly normal situation
here. What you have here is the most abnormal situation in the world
which has nothing to do with the US
government.

Jared: You think the situation has nothing to do with the US -

Paunovic: And another thing I don't like the way we are - Like Robin
Cook and Jamie Shea they made a
huge damage to our image when Robin Cooke said in a Press Conference
which was directly broadcast
on CNN "You know we helped B92 to get satellite access" and things like
that. But you know I think
they will obviously help anyone who is spreading serious criticism of
the government. So what are we
going to do about it? If they want to do it they will.

Jared: Do you feel uncomfortable with that statement [by Gelbard and
Biden]?

Paunovic: I absolutely feel uncomfortable with anyone patronizing -

Jared: You said before that the United States had nothing do with the
situation in Yugoslavia. You don't
think the United States is any part of the problem that you face in
Yugoslavia?

Paunovic: Well I don't say they are not part of the problem They are a
very big part of the problem
because for nine years they saw Milosevich as a guarantor of peace and
then completely changed their
policy declaring him a war criminal. If they needed the year 1999 to
realize he is a war criminal I think
they are very wrong. He is a war criminal and a person who is seriously
violating for many years. He
came to power in a completely illegal way. He had a coup in the [former
communist] party congress.



Jared: You think he's a war criminal? They charge him with war crimes
because they say the Serbian
police and the Yugoslav Army committed war crimes. Do you think the
Yugoslav Army committed war
crimes in Kosovo?

Paunovic: Well that's a collective guilt issue. They should specifiy the
names of people who committed
war crimes in Kosovo.

Jared: Do you think the Serbian Army committed war crimes in Kosovo?

Paunovic: I don't know. How can I know this? I don't work for the Hague
Tribunal.

Jared: Do you think the Hague Tribunal is a legitimate orgnaizxation>?

Paunovic: I don't know.

Jared: You said the US has been responsible for problems because of its
policy of backing Milosevich.
So that's the only thing the United States has done?

Paunovic: Are you referring to the bombing? I mean we can talk about
these things for 24 hours.

Jared: Well, it did happen. But anyway, you take money from the US
government

Paunovic: [Laughs] I don't know about it. I didn't say that. Did I say
it?

Jared: They say it.

Paunovic: Who?

Jared: In these hearings they say it explicitly; they say we've been
giving large sums of money to the
'independent' media. Now the main, the only name of 'independent' media
they mention is yours. They
say we had to stop when the bombing started. Since the bombing ended
we've been able to start again
and we're immediately going to get $10 million dollars in there. And we
have voted 100 million. That's
what they say.

Paunovic: You know, I don't know. That help was not only for B92. I mean
you have a list, practically
everyone, all media that exists in Serbia that is not controlled by the
Serbian government is on that list.

Jared: Getting money from the US?

Paunovic: Exactly,.

Jared: So they're all getting it, not just B92?

Paunovic: You know it's not a question of morality or something like
that because we're in an open war
with the government. We realized much before Washington realized we had
to overthrow Milosevich

Jared: Let me ask you, I understand you're broadcasting on satellite.
What satellite is that?

Paunovic: I don't know.

Jared: Is that Eurosat?

Paunovic: I am not a technical expert on the satellite. I can tell you
about the Internet.

Jared: Is there somebody who handles the radio I can talk to?

Paunovic: You can talk to me about it.

Jared; So do you know what satellite it is?

Paunovic: Yes but I don't know. I don't have anybody here who can help
you about this.

Jared: Is there anybody I can call to find that out?

Paunovic: Before, the way satellite operation was done I think in
cooperation with BBC.

Jared: Ahh, so you do know. And so now?

Paunovic: Probably the same.

Jared: Have you protested the Serbian government's exclusion from
Eurosat [the European Satellite TV
link]

Paunovic: We protest all those things. Everything.

[At this point Paunovic instructed Jared to check on their website to
see about the protest against
Yugoslav exclusion from Eursat. He checked but found no such protest
against Yugoslav exclusion.
Pauvonic promised to send the URL to that protest, and did in fact send
an email in which he stated his
regrets that the URL for the protest against Yugoslav esclusion from the
Eurosat was "unavailable".]

End of interview with gordan pauvonic

***

Inerview with Sanda Savic, News editor of Radio B292

Conducted by Jared Israel, May 23, 2000.

Jared: Are you in an office there or somebody's house?

Sanda: So-called office. We are just trying to gather computers,
telephones and etc., etc.

Jared: But I understand you're still able to transmit by satellite? What
satellite to you use?

Sanda: It's a BBC satellite.

Jared: You have an arrangement with them where you can -

Sanda: It's old arrangement. They give us more time on satellite now.
Every day we are broadcasting two
hours in the morning, two afternoon and two at the evening. Six hours a
day.

Jared: The BBC contributes this?

Sanda: I don't know the details about that agreement. But we used their
satellite before. But it was just
three hours before. We made a new agreement. They just wanted to help us
now.

Jared: That's a lot of time. What does that reach?

Sanda: We cover all the protests. That can be heard by everyone but
Belgrade because local stations
rebroadcast our programs, between 20 and 30 local stations.
Unfortunately BBC cannot be heard in
Belgrade.

Jared: I understand some people are very mad at you and some support
you. Are you getting strong
support?

Sanda: Many of us are very disappointed. We expect nothing special from
opposition [parties.] That's
why we prepared earlier offices and other ways to continue our work.
That's why we able to work now.
Because we didn't expect anything from the others, especially not from
the opposition parties.

Jared: So you prepared a whole alternative set of offices before this
happened? Sounds expensive.

Sanda: And we are doing some things to cover Belgrade. We are trying to
do that.

Jared: How are you doing that?

Sanda: I can't tell you more

Jared: What do you mean though, you say you're trying to cover Belgrade?

Sanda: We are trying to make some agreement with other radio stations,
not in Serbia.

Jared: You mean like Bulgaria or something?

Sanda: I can't tell you now. You're going to find out in the next ten or
15 days. Yes this is expensive but
you know the European Union and every organization from the outside
helped us for years and they are
going to help [now].

Jared: Like what organizations?

Sanda: Like, I don't know; [George] Soros, you know? There are so many
organizations from abroad.
They all help us.

Jared: Who owns the station?

Sanda: No one.

Jared: That can't be.

Sanda: We are not private. We are not a city organization. We are just,
I don't know. It's private owner

Jared: Who is the private owner?

Sanda: No one. It's just a part of Association of Independent Electronic
Media in Serbia.

Jared: You say no one owns it but I'm unclear. You said no one owns it,
but you said "we prepared other
offices." Somebody has to write checks. You've got phones; you have
relations with a satellite, etc.
Soros gives money; the money must go to something, some entity. Does
Soros own it?

Sanda: No no no no no no no. We don't have a legal status. We are just
part of an Association. You
know what happened during the bombing?

Jared: But somebody pays you a paycheck every week? Someone writes a
check and signs it?

Sanda: Yes but you have to ask my Director.

Jared: In other words you don't know who writes the -

Sanda: I don't know much about - it's so confused -

Jared: Specifically though you get a check you can cash at the bank?
Yes?

Sanda: Yes.

Jared: How much pay would a person get there? Is it a very good job?

Sanda: It's a good job.

Jared: Well somebody owns it because they write a check. Means
ownership, control.

Sanda: It's like a non-government organization. We have an Editor,
Director, it's just their job to get
money.

Jared: Let me read you something that's on the net now from a guy named
Paul Treanor. He says the
website that was set up when radio 2B292 came around is owned by KPB
Telecom through its
subsidiary XS4ALL NederlandBV. (2)

Sanda: Uh -huh.

Jared: Is that correct?

Sanda: Really, I really don't know. I'm not sure. I can't tell you
anything about that. I can just give you the
number of Sasa Milkovic. He's the Editor in Chief.

[Jared's note: I called Mr. Milkovic numerous times but he was always
too busy to talk.]

Further reading...

Do anti-Yugoslav Western interests own Radio 'Free' B292?'' by Paul
Treanor
www.emperors-clothes.com/articles/treanor/reisa.htm

'B92 "solidarity" money goes to Soros Fund' by Paul Treanor at
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/treanor/b92$.htm

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